Obama and Clinton and FISA again

Well can we say we are surprised? No we can't at this point (maybe a little about Clinton). Although one might wonder why Obama went out of his way to insist that he would support any filibuster and then come back and vote for cloture. Just how cynical is he, and just how stupid does he think that people who care about this issue are?

Apparently even more than I would have thought any normal politician was capable of (is that even a sentence?). Well I guess I should hope that whoever is president is really devious, right?

The votes were interesting in that Obama and Clinton both voted the correct way on the final votes so that if one is merely adding votes like say NARAL or HRC does then it looks like they were on the right side. Even though the real vote was for cloture and Obama voted for cloture which cut off any floor debate on the bill. Clinton apparently voted for cloture and then voted against it. I would guess that she voted against cloture after she was sure there were enough votes were there to make sure cloture was invoked. At any rate she didn't speak out against the bill, so whatever she did doesn't count for much.

To go back to the question of how stupid Obama thinks we are. There are people on Kos (find the specific one yourself) who are indeed defending his position as either principled or brilliant real politic. Believe me it was neither. If it was brilliant real politic then I wouldn't be able to see through it. Although I knew that Bush was lying back in 2002 when apparently no one in Washington did, so maybe I am brilliant and insightful. I guess it's all who we are compared to.

It is only principled if one thinks that eviscerating the Fourth Amendment is a principled act.

Well I can't really say that I now am in favor of a whole lot of his positions, on the other hand McCain scares the shit out of me.

I really didn't think I would be at this position this early in the election cycle. I'd at least dreamed that I wouldn't be this disappointed until he started to appoint cabinet members.

I need a good laugh.

Disappointed Again

You know I was waiting until at least after the election to be disappointed in Obama. Since, I hadn't held out a lot of hope for him, I really thought that he would not be able to disappoint before that.

But guess what, I'm wrong again. Faith based funding, FISA, running away from Wes Clark, walking away from his various leftish supporters. The people who got him where he is now have been dumped (must not say "thrown under the bus").

The amazing thing about it, is that he now seems to be jumping on the beltway wisdom, just the opposite of what got him where he is today.

As Greenwald and others have pointed out several times, there is no reason to listen to those people. They seem to have a lot of money and be not too bright. Well ok, they are bright enough to keep their money, but for the most part they were not bright enough to get it in the first place. That was their daddies or grand-daddies.

I was called by an Obama worker to ask if I would help get out the vote on the day Obama announced his support for the FISA deal. She tried to tell me that they had to "compromise." I told her that was bull-shit and at that point I was not about to work for Obama. However, I had to admit that I would vote for him since McCaine and the people who support him are true fascists in my opinion. I suspect that there are many who agree with me. That is people who would have worked for him if he had just stood up a little bit more for those rights and people he is now shunning.

So I guess the real question is: "Was he lying when he led us to believe he was sort of, kind of a little progressive. Or is he lying now when he repudiates all those who supported him."

The real strange thing is, of course, that taking those positions now do not help him get elected. They are in that little bubble where the real world does not intrude. It is kind of sad really.

I'm a little surprised

Frankly, I'm some what surprised at the number of dems who voted for the abomination that is the FISA bill, not however that it passed.

Let's see: The chief of police comes to me and says that someone in my town is making meth and getting guns together, perhaps to shoot up the town while on their meth high. He asks me to break into every house in town so that he can be sure that is the case. After I break into every house I'm found out, but the state legislature passes a law that says that as long as the chief asks me to do it, it's ok. So I'm off the hook.

Ok, "I'm not here to say that the government is always right, but when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do," so says congressman Kit Bond and apparently the leaders of the Democrat (can I now use that nasty slur?) party.

So let's see the president, or prime minister, or primer, or Il Duce, or Fuhrer, or King tells me what to do and then I "need to do" it. Even though the law says otherwise. But in the end it turns out that the law is really only what the president, etc. says it is. Isn't that a text book definition of the totalitarian or fascist state?

Just askin'.

FISA Again

Once again it looks like the Democrats are prepared to cave on FISA and give blanket immunity to the phone companies who broke the law at the request of the administration. I do appreciate Digby's position, but it doesn't make me much happier.

I am beginning to think that we are in the same place the later Roman Republic was just before the Sula and Marius. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we are going to end up in a bloody civil war. On the other hand, I think that is because there is no one who is even close to getting power who believes in anything.

One of the interesting things is that the excuses and reasons given by the Democrats are simply not believable to anyone who cares. We see right through there statements. They are liars and care not for our country, but only for those who they consider are in their ruling class with them.

Giving the corporations legal immunity because they did what the president wanted even though that was against the law is the text book definition of fascist. A state run by the corporations and those they place in office to do their bidding.

Hey who needs the Fourth Amendment if you have nothing to hide. I guess those assholes in powdered wigs just couldn't understand how scared a few guys with box cutters can make us.